Umm, not quite sure what to put here

2005-08-19T06:33:42Z

Thread from ->>[info]lonely_picture
2005-08-18 18:57 (link)
my bad, I definitely worded that wrong. I do realize that it's not limited to Christians alone to pray or to hope and wish. And I agree 'praying for chance' .. having hopes or wishes that something will happen is different. But aside from all Christianity, agnostics are people who withhold their judgement from accepting or denying the fact that there is a God because there aren't sufficient grounds. Isn't prayer usually defined as conversing with some sort of deity? Regardless of what god(s), be it Christian or not, they are still praying to a god in which they don't believe in, which is what I don't understand.

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[info]britannica
2005-08-18 19:07 (link)
I can't speak for all agnostics, but the reason that I'm agnostic is simply because, as you said, there are no concrete grounds for the proving or disproving in a higher being. However, even beyond this, whether or not a God is proven simply does not matter. I don't believe in absolutes, so even if, scientifically, a God was proven to exist today I'm not sure it would make any difference in the way that I act.

The analogies to the unknown where people use elements that are invisible such as wind or lightwaves are all too cliché. You can measure wind, if you pour particles into the wind, you can see the way it travels. You can measure lightwaves. You can measure all these things that are invisible. The denial of a God doesn't come down to the inability to physically see him, but rather it comes down to an inability to measure any facet of his existence. Religion as a whole is just too ambiguous and subjective for some of us to define our lives by. The Bible alone has been interpreted in so many different ways and has had so many different versions that it's ludicrous to some people to pidgeon hole it as an ultimate truth. Some people need religion in their lives and others, simply, don't.

When I wish for something to happen, I'm not praying to God. As I said earlier, I'm simply praying for the element of chance. I'll admit that after being Christian earlier in my life, it's easy to manifest that chance in a God-like form once in a while, but I still feel it's different than an actual prayer in that prayer isn't used solely for personal gain. There's a difference between yelling "Oh, God, let the patriots score this touchdown!" and actual prayer. I think that may be were the confusion arises.

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(Anonymous)
2005-08-19 04:18 (link)
lest this become a debate on the existence of God...
You make some good points, but I think they require a little more attention.
***
on a side, note
"I don't believe in absolutes, so even if, scientifically, a God was proven to exist today I'm not sure it would make any difference in the way that I act,"
do you believe this absolutely? =D
***
Wind and light are cliche, but I think you missed the point. If you pour particles into the wind, all you see are the particles, not the wind. What you see are the effects of the wind. When you get sunburned or turn on a bulb, you see the effects of the light. I can't go out and get a six-pack of wind, or a keg of light, just like I can't get my hands on God's cloak to show, but I can see the effects of God. The denial of God has some but not much to do with the inability to physically see him. When you allude to the existence of God having no bearing on the way you act, you hold a popular sentiment. People do not want a God in their lives because this God will know them and judge them, and He will hold them to a higher standard. Afterall, why have a God if he'll spoil your fun, right?
I wholeheartedly agree that an ambiguous and subjective religion is not a good thing to define our lifestyles by. However, I (though biased), fail to see how Christianity falls into that category. The bible has been translated several times, but you'd be hardpressed to find any essential difference in core truths (unless you bring in Mormons, Watchtower, Jehovah Witnesses..etc, but they make up their own bible, they don't count). All people need religion in their lives but others simply won't.

I'm glad you've taken the time to think about God and truth, as these are very, if not the most, important part of being human. I encourage you to take even more time to read literature concerning this topic. If you approach Christianity objectively (since both you and I both disdain subjective behavior), it'll hold up to as much scrutinity as you can throw at it.

And as far as prayer goes, I think that manifestations of spoken prayer are an indication of the desire to commune with a higher being. Afterall, that's what we were designed for. Though I must confess my ability to pray is not what it should be, if there was no God listening, it would surely be a lonely universe.

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[info]britannica
2005-08-19 05:05 (link)
I sincerely hope you're feigning your own ignorance with that response, otherwise I'm in dismay but for a reason that has nothing to do with religion itself. When you quoted what I said about absolutes, I think you took that in a way that goes against logic just in order to try and prove your point. If you touch something that's cold, you don't feel it as cold unless you've touched something warmer than that. In the 1950s, 20 miles per hour was seen as fast but that was because the average speed limit then wasn't 40. So on and so forth. I believe in what I believe in. The absolutes that I don't believe in relate to absolute good, absolute bad, etc. How can you believe something only in relationship to another? Your argument simply doesn't hold up and makes little sense.

And you quite honestly did miss the point with the wind example. Physically all you do see are the particles, I agree, but the way the particles flow and the way they spread is proof of wind. There are tools used to measure the force of wind, and these are all tools to prove its existence. You trying to use the same argument to rebutt the fact that there's no scientific proof of a God and applying it to wind is really baseless, and deep down, I think you know this.

I fear for your well being in expressing such sentiment as "When you allude to the existence of God having no bearing on the way you act, you hold a popular sentiment. People do not want a God in their lives because this God will know them and judge them, and He will hold them to a higher standard." and trying to apply it to people you do not even know. Are you as naive as to believe that the proof of God's existence would make those that commit horrendous acts morally ashamed? That the hedonists among us would "straighten up" and that we'd feel obligated to act in the "proper" manner as defined by Christianity? The people that do not want God in their lives don't want him in their lives because they don't believe in him. Every time a discussion about God arises, it seems that some Christians are always trying to justify the reason non-believers are non-believers either by using fear, or guilt, or some other tired and age-old reason and it's simply just not true. You cannot tell people why they believe or don't believe what they do and the minute you start trying to break down such an intricate thing as the human mind and blend your partisanship towards God in that analysis, you become blind.

So many people follow their religions blindly. They're raised Christian, they're told that certain things are good and certain things are bad and never question that. I would rather live a good life using moral judgment and values that are inherent to even those of us that have no religion than blindly follow a religion that I never even questioned out of fear that there may be faults in it. Than be so hypocritical as blindly follow some things in the Bible (like the admonishing of homosexuality) yet turn around and do the opposite when the circumstances favor the home land (like killing in wars). I was raised Christian and for a time I blindly followed that. But after I matured to a certain point I started to question why I believed what I did and couldn't come up with a reason why.

I can only encourage you to take your own advice, except instead of read nothing but Christianity, actually explore other religions. If your belief is as watertight as you come off as it being, at the very least, actually learning about other religions would open your mind up into seeing why not everyone can be bottlenecked into your premature analysis about why people that aren't Christian aren't Christian. As far as prayers go, you're free to come up with whatever conjecture you can about why people wish or pray. The only advice I can give you is to not over-generalize and fall into the easy routine of projecting why you do what you do onto others. Instead of coming off as another person who happens to be Christian, you could easily come off as a Christian who is blind about why other people practice what they practice.

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chingchongchow @ 2004-01-13T20:14:00

2004-01-14T04:14:42Z

Disorder	Rating
Paranoid:	Low
Schizoid:	Low
Schizotypal:	Low
Antisocial:	Low
Borderline:	Low
Histrionic:	Moderate
Narcissistic:	Low
Avoidant:	Low
Dependent:	Low
Obsessive-Compulsive:	Low
-- Personality Disorder Test - Take It! --

Oh my.. this could get interesting..

augh!

2004-01-12T14:50:52Z

This past weekend, i've just been so confused and mood swingy. I can't say I'm sad. I can't say I'm happy. But I can say I'm confused.
I woke up this monday morning with the hope that it was all a dream. But no, the real dream I had was being live at Tyra Bank's Top Model show and watching Aaron Furgasson bust out a mad drum solo. Then i complained to someone that I had given away a really good charm. =(
yeah, wierd, i know.
I'm slowly working through it. I suppose I realize that she's right, that our relationship isn't worthless if we aren't dating. So for all of you who read this, please keep us in your prayers, that our friendship continues to grow in God. Also prayer for the dynamics in our Youth Group as well. A body of sick members is bound to be sick as well.

chingchongchow @ 2004-01-08T19:18:00

2004-01-10T02:42:27Z

I was watching TV, some comedy show was on
Daughter: is everyone ready for some brain fever(a board game of some kind)?
Daddy: oo, i am! *picks up fake, plastic brain*
I like how they even have a brain. And look! Made in france! Now that's surprising!

Oo baby, i was playing D2, and I found ARKAINE's VALOR!!!

chingchongchow @ 2004-01-08T19:18:00

2004-01-09T03:19:59Z

ooo, i just had dinner with the parents, and i had some whipped yoplait yogurt. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM soooo good!!!!

anyhoo, stoopid Band essay, i hate i hate i hate... =(
But i'm done, mostly, just got to finish the biblibiblibliography.

chingchongchow @ 2003-12-26T13:22:00

2003-12-27T17:40:08Z

my my my my my my my..... isn't this interesting....

What Makes You Sexy? by eva71
Name/NickName
Gender
Sexy Body Part Is	Everything
Special Talents Are	Nibbling

Created with quill18's MemeGen!

This is more like it...

What Makes You Sexy? by eva71
Name/NickName
Gender
Sexy Body Part Is	Nothing
Special Talents Are	Looking Innocent

Created with quill18's MemeGen!

I love these things, they're funny doodads

S.A.D.

2003-12-26T21:23:30Z

Seasonal Affective Disorder:
If you're feeling down this wintry season, SAD's it the perfect scapegoat for your holiday blues.

SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) is a type of winter depression that affects an estimated half a million people every Winter between September and April, in particular during December, January and February.
It is caused by a biochemical imbalance in the hypothalamus due to the shortening of daylight hours and the lack of sunlight in winter.
It is a mild but debilitating condition causing discomfort but not severe suffering. This is also known as subsyndromal SAD or 'winter blues.'

*******************************
Serious post now. My heart goes out to those who are hurting right now. Like Sharon said, "Sucks how when you know a friend's down, there's nothing you can do to cheer them up. And it hurts so much to see them hurting." If anyone needs anything, just give me a call. Just that, and I'm praying for all of you.

Inspirational Verse of the moment
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Philippians 4:13

Haha, this girl is hilarious

2003-12-26T18:36:40Z

choumidget: snowpants? :raise eyebrow:
choumidget: wut are those for
choumidget: playing in the....snow...that...you get...every year...here?

chingchongchow @ 2003-12-16T07:05:00

2003-12-18T05:45:24Z

hello all
just got back from my Band concert. Drummers did a great job, the band was .... well... there...
I was very happy to see Sharon and then later Jessi and Dan. Thanks for coming too, i appreciate you guyz driving out here to moo moo moo livermore moo... mooo
Eek! I'm tired..

now this is funky

2003-12-15T05:26:29Z

mmm, guess i'm switching to LJ. I'll need to make me an icon

Jocular Jeddo's Journal

Umm, not quite sure what to put here

chingchongchow @ 2004-01-13T20:14:00

augh!

chingchongchow @ 2004-01-08T19:18:00

chingchongchow @ 2004-01-08T19:18:00

chingchongchow @ 2003-12-26T13:22:00

S.A.D.

Haha, this girl is hilarious

chingchongchow @ 2003-12-16T07:05:00

now this is funky